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Bill Ruckelshaus and Russell Train
Q: You mentioned having Bill Ruckelshaus and Russell Train as significant mentors. Did you have an ongoing relationship with them while you were Administrator; and what impact did their advice, such as they gave you during that time, have on your thinking and the decisions you made?
MR. REILLY: My relationship with Bill Ruckelshaus was episodic and infrequent, principally because he was running a waste company. We did have a breakfast one morning at the Jefferson Hotel at which I made a pitch to him that he should chair a committee of the National Academy of Sciences on climate. A whistle-blower at EPA later tried to get that encounter investigated on the grounds that I had probably engaged in something improper and Ruckelshaus had probably lobbied me to do something that would benefit his company. That experience made meetings alone with Bill Ruckelshaus somewhat risky for me and I didn't have any more, though I did meet with him in the company of others from time to time.
I often had lunch - I say often, probably every three or four months - with Russell Train and always found him thoughtful and reflective. He gave me some advice going in that I found very useful. He said, You don't have a lot of friends in this Administration, you don't have a history with these people, you don't have a political constituency that will support you, so pay attention to the press; they could become an important ally of yours. I think you will do well with them. That will annoy the White House when they see you getting good press, it always does, but it will also make them wary of you, cause them to respect you, and it will give you more clout in conflict situations.
I took that advice quite seriously and it proved correct. That's just one example of the kind of practical help that he was able to give me. I also solicited his advice before I met with President Bush, then President-elect Bush, to talk about going to EPA. Train encouraged me to try to obtain an assurance of access and also control over personnel appointments to EPA. And then, I saw him socially also through that time because we would have dinner from time to time and, in his capacity as Chairman of World Wildlife Fund, he would have me back for functions that they held.
I saw Lee Thomas just a few times, I think, and talked to him a few times on the phone. He was constrained from calling me by the terrorizing ethics briefing that is given to an Administrator before he leaves EPA that makes clear that any initiative on his part to contact the Agency to do anything could possibly result in his going to jail for it. I don't think Lee called me for two years. I did call him occasionally, and he was really an outstanding figure, I think an underappreciated one, who kept the Agency together during a very difficult time and did it quite well. EPA has been very fortunate in its Administrators. It, by and large, is a classy group.